062003 Doggie 2 db.JPG
Quiet day at Wegmans Good Dog Park, 2003.
(Dick Blume | dblume@syracuse.com)
My column last Sunday, on a small dog that was attacked and killed by what appeared to be a Mastiff mix at the Wegmans Good Dog Park at the Cold Springs section of Onondaga Lake Park, led to an outpouring of reader thoughts and reaction about the park – and what might be done to minimize problems with aggressive dogs.
Maybe an hour after posting this item, I received a note about the photograph that ran with it – which underlines the entire issue. And here are some of the other emails, thoughts and letters I received in recent days:
Sean:
We have a golden retriever and have tried The Good Dog Park but find the other dogs to be too aggressive for our dog. Usually, the adults are either talking, sitting, or otherwise paying very little attention to what their dogs are doing. When we have been there, the majority of people do not clean up after their dogs.
When we asked our vet about taking our dog there, he cautioned that other dogs might not be up to date with their vaccinations, licensing, etc.
One suggestion to keep that park open might be to keep a permanent attendant on duty (too expensive?) or to have a much smaller opening for the entry to the small dog side. Perhaps then adults would get the message without READING the RULES. Thanks for your supportive column!
Ann and Don Zawacki
Hi Sean,
I read your article looking for feedback on the dog park. We have been taking our dog to the dog park for years. In that time, we had one bad experience where Pinky was chewed up. There were several puncture wounds, including one to my husband's thumb, which he got when he was trying to pry the other dog off of Pinky's throat. The owner readily admitted that her lab mix had some trouble getting along with other dogs. People need to use common sense. If they know that their dog is not socialized, they shouldn't be there. Pinky recovered just fine, though she was obviously emotionally shaken by the experience for a week or so afterwards.
There was another incident where I was walking with a bag of (waste) to the bin and a pit bull chased after me and chomped down on my elbow. I used my teacher voice and told the woman that she needed to get her dog and leave. Fortunately the ranger happened to be there and when he spoke to the owner, he learned that the dog had no proof of license or vaccinations and permanently banned them both from the park.
We learned early on to avoid the weekends like the plague. The weekends tend to be more crowded, and for whatever reason, the people that come at that time tend to be the ones that play with their cell phones and ignore their dogs. Maybe I am being unfair, but that is my experience. Very few dogs just attack out of nowhere. The vast majority of them give warnings, and you learn to see the warning signals by watching their body language. Pet parents need to pay attention and step in before things escalate. We won't go inside the gates if it is too crowded or if we recognize dogs and owners that have caused problems.
My beef with the dog park is people that bring little children inside the gates and then get upset when their kids get jumped on by a big dog. It's a DOG PARK, not a kids' park. There are clearly marked signs that STRONGLY ADVISE AGAINST bringing children under the age of 10 inside, but some people do it anyway. I could also do without the people that bring dog treats in. They are just asking to be in the center of a feeding frenzy. Then there are the folks that do not pick up their dog's poop. Yes, really.
I would like to see the dog park become a "membership club" of some sort, whereby you pay a yearly fee and the fees collected go to pay an attendant who would monitor entrance and exit and keep unvaccinated and unlicensed animals out of the park. Dogs that are deemed too aggressive could be flagged and prevented from returning. Perhaps the fee could include grading the soil and filling the potholes that occur in the spring. A fee would also reduce the number of "casual" dog park attendees who come once in a while and have no real investment in the park.
Tiffany Mack: Death of her dog Charlie stirs compassion, calls for change.
My heart goes out to the family that lost their dog to an attack at the park. Anyone who has lost a pet knows how devastating it can be. My hope is that this terrible incident may serve as a catalyst to make the park safer for other dogs and their humans.
Pam Carroll
Hi Sean,
I cannot tell you how turned off I am by dog parks.
They start with this Utopian view of a place where all dogs can run free and have fun and if there is a mix-up, why, just let them work it out!
In fact, dogs are pack animals and very few are simply friendly to every dog that comes their way. They are not meant to be and that instinct to be reserved and careful with newcomers is very adaptive and helps preserve their well being.
So we willy-nilly thrust them into a pen filled with other animals they don't know and some they do and just expect them to play and get along.
What usually happens, in my experience, is the largest and strongest dogs bully the rest, usually while the owners sip coffee and socialize with each other.
I live near French Park in North Egremont, Mass. The morning crowd is a group of guys with a pack of dogs that do not tolerate newcomers. If an innocent person enters the park before they grab their dogs the pack will pile on the new dog and it is not pretty. If the owner gets mad, the owner turn on him/her!
So the dogs are bullies and the owners are too!!
I am a local trainer and I get many dogs from the park who are either biting other dogs or who have been bitten.
I have written to the Select Board of the town complaining because I think the park is unsafe and the existing rules – such as if a dog has bitten it may not come back again – are generally ignored. There is no enforcement and the place is basically lawless; the sign at the entrance should say."enter at your own risk."
What could make it better? Enforce the rules: Any signs of aggression mean your dog cannot come back. You must have eyes on your dog at all times. Just as if you brought a child to a playground, you must be responsible for them and watch them. And finally, Sue Sternberg has done some wonderful work on dog behavior and dog parks. She knows her stuff!
Nora Hayes
Sean,
What a sad and shameful article this morning. I have been going to the dog park for several years with my last Golden (who crossed in November) and my new one. It is a GREAT place for dogs to socialize and get to run unfettered. I was there on Monday and heard nothing about this death!
I've fallen into a cadre of dog owners who come the same days as we go so we all know each other (reconnected with some theatre friends from years ago there) and our dogs all know each other and look forward to seeing each other.
We all know, also, never to go on weekends! I have heard so many people say they came on a weekend and were shocked at the complete change in the people who go only on weekends. It appears all the "crazies" come out. All the irresponsible "owners' who do not keep their shots up and do not license their dogs appear. I think they believe the park patrols are off on the weekends and they can get away with it.
Of course, the patrols are much less this time of year as I haven't seen any in the three weeks I've had my new dog, but during the nice weather they're usually there during the times I'm there from about noon to 3 pm. This is also probably why more crazies are coming out because they think they won't get caught.
Occasionally (rangers) check for records. The patrol issues separate Dog Park ID tags after they check your paperwork so they don't have to do each dog every time. There is a color coded tag for the current year so they look for the tags without having to bother the owners unless they spot untagged dogs.
Still, when I'm there during the week I've seen the crazies! One woman who came in with two children and a large dog, deposited them in the large dog side and promptly left them there so the kids could play with the dog's water faucet and the dog could run wildly along the fence after the woman then joined friends under the trees in the small dog side, paying no attention to her dog or children! Luckily, the patrol came by just as a friend went to toss away stuffing from a toy this lax owner's dog had destroyed so that other dogs wouldn't swallow it and the woman's dog promptly jumped straight up aiming for her neck or shoulder! The patrol guy saw it and promptly demanded to see the dog's papers and then tossed them all out!
I do know of a man who comes in with a fairly aggressive dog (the rules state if your dog gets aggressive you are supposed to take it out) and his dog usually goes after some other dog and he says, "He's never done that before" but I've witnessed this same thing several times and also heard about it even more from others. Some owners just don't deserve this venue!
I certainly hope the dogs won't be punished by taking this away from them. We've talked about petitioning local governments for MORE of them as the one in Liverpool is the only dog park in this entire area! It's amazing how far some people I've met drive to bring their dog there so it can play and get some needed exercise, and in all kinds of weather!
If anything, I would suggest more frequent park patrols throughout the day as just their presence being noticed will help to curb the "crazies" from coming. Another suggestion would be more benches as many have been removed or "lost" somehow in the years I've been coming. The park has said they will not be replacing them but there are many older folks who bring their dogs there who use canes or even walkers and then have to leave fairly quickly when they discovered there is no place to sit and play with their dog. I often see a couple of people with walking difficulties bring their own folding chair sin just so they can sit for a while while their dogs play.
The Dog Park is a great community resource which is greatly enjoyed by responsible dog owners and we deeply appreciate it. I've met several "newbies" who are amazed at the fact that we even HAVE one as they've never seen the like before!!
– Robert "Tank" Steingraber
(Tank … A suggestion, based on your letter: Maybe the county parks department could require people to register their dogs to receive those colored tags, which would also create a record of all dogs, their vaccinations and identification – and then the colored tags would be a requirement for entry, and would make enforcement much easier for the rangers. – Sean)
Sean –
I just read your article in the Sunday paper. My heart goes out to Tiffany Mack. That was a horror that no one should have to live.
I have a Lab-Pit mix of almost 2 years. I got her when she was 6-months-old. First dog I have ever owned. She is a good dog. I took her to the Good Dog Park twice. Never again.
She was not hurt nor did she hurt another. I was appalled at the dog "parents."
My dog is not a small dog. I went to the pen for large dogs.
She had a good time. Ran around and tired herself out. I threw a tennis ball and she'd go get it and bring it back. She met other dogs and they ran around and jumped around each other like dogs do. She really enjoyed herself.
Then a few dogs decided they wanted to say they were "alpha" and started putting their teeth on my dog. They didn't bite down hard but that was inappropriate "play" behavior in my opinion.
The answer from the owners was not to tell the dogs, 'No, don't do that.' It was: 'They are asserting dominance. It is normal. They aren't going to hurt her. They are all just trying to figure out who the leader of the pack is.'
BULL. As the owner or 'parent,' YOU ARE THE ALPHA. You don't let your children go running around bullying others on the playground at school because they are trying to "assert dominance" or determine who the leader is. Why would you think it appropriate to let your pet do this then?
I am my dog's Alpha and she respects that fact. She is in my family and treated just like one of my children.
I would love to take her back and let her just run to her hearts content. I do not have a fenced yard. For the most part she is a good dog and will not leave the yard. If I yell or more accurately whistle in a certain way at her she comes running. But she deserves to have the freedom of my not telling her to come back or being tied to her dog run. It is just too bad that other dog 'parents' feel it is OK for their dogs to have bad manners and try to figure out who is Alpha in the pack when playing.
My dog will never learn how to be socialized with other dogs properly because I can't trust other dog owners to control their dogs.
Thank you,
Jenn
Sean,
I read your article on Tiffany Mack and her dog Charlie. What a terrible loss. My husband, Joseph, and I bring our dogs there almost daily. We are transplants from NYC and live in Liverpool now. The Wegmans park is a great asset and after having lived in the City for most of our lives, we really appreciate the park. But there are problems.
Some dog owners, not many, socialize too much themselves and ignore their animals. My most common gripe is that too many people do not pick up after their dogs but more importantly they don't pick up on warning signs of aggression. Our two small terriers have been attacked before more than once. Every time that has happened we were the ones separating the dogs and the dog's owners acted surprised that their dog displayed aggression.
I'm glad you pointed out in the article that the dogs are not at fault; the fault is with the irresponsible owners not tending their animals. I myself have been bitten by an aggressive dog, pulling it off my dog. You can't fix stupid, but I do appreciate it when the Parks Police are there at least in the summer months to enforce the rules.
Dog fights are a risk you take going there, but it would be nice to see the rangers out there more often.
Thank you,
Ben
Sean:
My heart goes out to Tiffany and her dogs. I've had a similar experience when my small dog went to training. The aggressive dog who was on a leash was removed from the classroom for he continually pulled away from his owner while trying to get at my dog. It was apparent the owner had no control which made me so petrified I wouldn't set my dog down.
It's critical to always use a leash, try to train your dog and should he/she be aggressive stay away from crowded environments. The owner must take responsibility.
Deborah Pinker
Sean, regarding your article –
I visit that dog park on a somewhat regular basis, my experience is pretty consistent with most public venues: The quality of experience is a mix of the responsibility present in the people and dogs at the time. There are varying expectations of what people want for their dog(s) as well as dissimilar levels of behavior people expect out of their dog(s) and others.
Most times, visits go fairly routine and uneventful. It's an opportunity for people to meet, greet and socialize while to dogs do the same. Just as people won't always get along, dogs will do the same. I think the mistakes and misunderstandings occur when people think they have an entitlement to use of the space without regard to the mix of breeds and behaviors at the time.
There have been times I have seen the mix and not gone in. There have been times I have been there and the mix changes and I leave. I monitor my dog's behavior and correct behavior when I see it inappropriate. My dog is a runner and will look for other dogs to run with or try and bait them into chasing. I greet other owners to let them know this and also will let people know he has two triggers – he does not like being mounted and he doesn't like seeing aggression in other dogs. His reaction to either of these is not to attack but a measured, aggressive, short reaction where he makes it clear he will not stand for that behavior. It happens periodically, he reacts the way I describe and then quickly goes back to his running and socializing.
I think owners do have a responsibility for their dog as well as understanding the behavior of dogs in general if they are to put them in social situations. There is a difference between dogs who attack with intent to harm and dogs that aggressively react when boundaries are crossed. There is reaction and over-reaction. The difference comes down to training, responsibility and breed-type.
Given the popularity of the dog park, I would suggest that it's not big enough. I think there should be another (3rd) pen available that is larger and allows for further separation of dogs. Presently, the choices are small or all sizes. I would add a 3rd pen and have small, all-sizes socially oriented and all-sizes high-activity oriented space. This addition would better separate based on sociability, activity and behavior, thus reducing the occurrence of incidents.
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I would also suggest a spot for a coffee/snack truck to park close by. I think they would do well. I know my dog is visually triggered by the presence of a coffee cup in my hand. When I don't have the cup – he knows his visit is over!
– Eric Caballero
Sean;
Xmas Eve, my black lab and I experienced a similar situation in the field next to my house. A visiting Doberman attacked my dog and clamped down on her neck and ear. If I had not been there my dog would have been killed.
The Doberman would not release .. so I grabbed its jaw with both hands (in his mouth) and it still would not release. After 3-4 minutes … and that's a long time with a dog clamped down on your hand … I got the dog to release. But in the meantime I suffered a 1/2 dozen puncture wounds and a severely damaged thumb (even wearing heavy leather gloves) My dog had puncture wounds on the neck and one through the ear.
Regarding the Wegmans Dog Park: As a dog lover, I'd suggest KEEPING the dog park. The problem is "untrained dog owners." Perhaps ALL dogs over a certain weight should be excluded or on a leash … but that's dog discrimination!
I'm fortunate that we have 600 acres of "forever wild" property around us here in Camillus, but we also go to Onondaga Lake Park.
E. Dewey Reinhardt
– Sean Kirst is a columnist with The Post-Standard. You can respond here or email him at skirst@syracuse.com
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